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Post by lordhowl on Nov 4, 2010 21:51:07 GMT -5
I'd say yes. And it shows something about her werewolf-infected personality that she really never seemed to realize this.
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Post by †Wicky Wicked† on Nov 5, 2010 11:27:27 GMT -5
Ooh please .... he is a guy he wanted it. I mean he took the initiative right. When she said 'Let's go' he said 'Alriiiiight'. Does that sound like he didn't want to? I mean maybe he didn't want to do it that rough and painfully, but he wanted it for sure. So I'd say no.
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Post by sophielovessam on Nov 5, 2010 14:19:00 GMT -5
Actually, this has crossed my mind. Except, that the next day he seemed all proud, if he'd been raped.. well, he probably would have been more reserved.
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Post by insanereaper on Nov 5, 2010 14:23:40 GMT -5
*Glaring at Sophie* I was just about to write that too. But ya I say that it isn't technicaly classified as rape if he enjoyed it.
OT time! Who votes that in an ironic twist of events I report Wicky to the mods!? (don't let this screw this thread to hell a day after it is posted. Try and keep your replys to my retorical question at the end of a post. Remember threads only go to hell with off-topicness after a week and a half.)
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Post by sophielovessam on Nov 5, 2010 17:36:01 GMT -5
*Shifts eyes and slowly moves away from reaper*
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Post by insanereaper on Nov 5, 2010 20:30:12 GMT -5
*Goes upstairs and grabs baseball bat out of bedroom. Then begins looking for planes traveling to England.*
OT time! Screw the rules I have money!
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Post by lordhowl on Nov 5, 2010 21:57:09 GMT -5
Yes he's a guy, yes he went in there wanting it, gung-ho seeking her approval for sex.
Yet, I think Ginger raped him. First I'll qualify this by saying I don't know how the legal system would work this out in Europe, but I have a good idea how it would work in the US, and I think there would be a pretty good case to make for rape.
I'll explain by asking that you, no matter what sex you are, put yourself in this circumstance: You've made it clear to your partner that you want to have sex with them, but instead of doing what you expect, your partner then cinches your arms and takes a tennis ball size bite out of your belly.
Question: would your offer of sex still apply?
No, fact is, for anybody reading this, you know it wouldn't. You didn't agree to sex under that circumstance. Legally, the sex then becomes part of an assault. Anybody could fairly infer that.
Now would a prosecutor, judge and jury see it that way? If it happened to a female, in the US, I'm certain they'd convict of rape. If it happened to a male, I still think they'd have a fair chance of doing it.
As for what Jason said afterward, I admit it does muddy up things, but I can easily see where he would try to present it as a conquest after the fact and salvage some pride and reputation from it. Otherwise, as a guy accusing her of rape, that would feel shameful, and he was probably very confused by it himself. Moreover, with all the bite marks on his face, how was he going to hide it?
To support my point: when Jason becomes desperate to know what's happening to him, he doesn't go to Ginger. He goes to Brigitte. He obviously knows where they live. Why doesn't he ask Ginger?
He's afraid of her then. They are not on good terms.
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Post by lordhowl on Nov 7, 2010 3:57:05 GMT -5
I have more thoughts on this after seeing the movie again.
In that scene, Jason does tell her to stop, at least three times. (I'm certain it was deliberate that he say stop at least that many times.)
And I realized something else: of course it was rape! It isn't even ambiguous. This is a horror story, and that scene was made to be disturbing, if a little humorous. Werewolves aren't subtle. They won't get your consent before killing you, so of course she wasn't concerned about consent for sex. What happened there was, he pissed her off prior to consensual sex; he challenged her. So she raped him.
The scene really doesn't have "an edge" unless it was rape. What's the point otherwise?
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Post by †Wicky Wicked† on Nov 8, 2010 13:44:44 GMT -5
Didn't she say to Brigitte, while sharing her experience, that it wasn't how she expected it to be. That she was just laying there and he was done and she was like ... Oh! .... Well, if she was just laying there, she didn't force him into anything, except maybe for the start of it.
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Post by insanereaper on Nov 9, 2010 6:53:17 GMT -5
ARG! These are both valid arguements. My brain is starting to hurt and I think my sanity is going to be gone before the start of second period at school today!
OT time! Todays forcast is Tuesday with scattered bits of Mondayness around the world. In other news after lossing a game of poker the Grim Reaper has been forced to give Zeus all of his undead powers for a week. Zeus is now flying across the world in a massive blimp holding the worlds longest and best "undead/zombie party ever." No entrance unless your dead (I have a lovely grasp of the obvious. epick ninjorz mind readin skillz!)
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Post by sophielovessam on Dec 8, 2010 13:39:31 GMT -5
This is a really good point LH.. and I've been thinking about it. I think we know for certain that neither of them really enjoyed it
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Post by lordhowl on Dec 8, 2010 17:54:49 GMT -5
Didn't she say to Brigitte, while sharing her experience, that it wasn't how she expected it to be. That she was just laying there and he was done and she was like ... Oh! .... Well, if she was just laying there, she didn't force him into anything, except maybe for the start of it. I didn't see this post at first, sorry I missed it. No, that isn't what she said, Wicky, nothing close to it. She talked about all this "squirming and squealing, and then he's done, and you're like, Oh." She didn't mention "lying there" at all. Fact is, they set that up so you'd think she was talking about killing Norman the dog at first! This is in Karen Walton's narration. So it was set up to be-- sickly funny. It also goes to show that Ginger was not even aware of what she did; she was not really aware of Jason's wishes at all! She regarded him in the very same manner that she regarded Norman! Who she killed! Jason's lucky he wasn't her first kill. That scene is hard to hear at first, and its easy to miss Ginger's opening lines, so your mind inserted what you thought she said. And the scene in the car did not depict her lying there. If anything, it would have been hard to get from what was happening in that scene to just lying there. Even if Ginger was "lying" about it. And if you look at it also, it's when he tells her "to lay back and relax," i.e. submit to his dominance, that she becomes miffed. When she says, "You lay back and relax!" back to him, she's no longer friendly. When he follows that with "Who's the guy?" Then she gets violent. She saw herself as dominant and he challenged her with entitlement. Unlike with any rape case in the real world, we could see exactly what happened there. He was saying stop, there was no consent at the time of sex. It was rape. And she even did it for power!
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Post by lordhowl on Dec 8, 2010 18:08:15 GMT -5
This is a really good point LH.. and I've been thinking about it. I think we know for certain that neither of them really enjoyed it True, but Ginger's perspective on it was . . . chilling. She wasn't even aware of Jason at all. He was just something there squirming and squealing. She only knows she was disappointed. When she talks about it, he's interchangeable with Norman! That's sick on a few levels.
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