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Post by manimal on Apr 14, 2010 18:09:45 GMT -5
I got this from imdb. I found it pretty interesting.
I agree with them that the first werewolf was still in human form on the first few kills. Would make sense since it doesn't seem there was any force entry, as least for Baxter's house. If it was fully transformed, i think someone would have heard it, since it wouldn't have had the conscience of keeping things quiet when he was ripping poor Baxter apart.
The part i disagree with is that the transformation isn't permanent. I believe since the transformation continuously took place over 28 days hinted that there was no going back being human. In most other movies, the individual that gets bit and survives has no idea they are a werewolf until the next full moon. They have their first transformation, go on a killing spree, then wake up butt naked the next morning with blood strained hands and month. This was clearly not the case in Ginger Snaps.
What are you guys thoughts?
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Post by lordhowl on Apr 14, 2010 20:22:17 GMT -5
lol. Manimal, would you believe I wrote that?
I also have a review up and discussion posts under the name freeist.
Frankly, I would agree with you about not changing back after the full moon. The gradual changes do suggest what you say.
However, even if we're going to consider the legends to be as fucked up why would they even mention a person ever changing back? One person here (nat) raised the possibility from one of the legends, actually something recorded by Pliny the Elder (or Younger), a Roman official and historian, is that he knew of a man who became werewolf and turned back AFTER NINE YEARS. I was actually working with nat on some fanfiction based on that. (Yes nat still working on the scene.)
There's another angle that totally changes werewolf stories in general if the changes run throughout the month and then culminate with totally animalizing at the full moon. I got the idea, for my fan fiction (The Feral Bond), when one reviewer asked, if the changes were gradual, wouldn't werewolves be detected long before this?
Suppose then Ginger wasn't typical for an infected person. Suppose, the person begins to change as Ginger did. Suppose also that the usual course is that the person goes through a stage of hypersexuality, and then becomes alienated, hostile, and begins to hunt small and domestic animals. At that stage of the changes, they become too paranoid and wander off. What if they then live in seclusion till the full moon? Hunting, committing sexual assaults, and perhaps murdering, but all the time they are more concerned with avoiding detection first and foremost.
Perhaps it was Ginger's bond with Brigitte that kept her trying to think like a human being as long as she did. What would Ginger have done if she had killed Norman and did not have Brigitte there? She'd be scared both of detection and she was ashamed. Running away would have been a no-brainer. Where would she have gone and how would she have acted.
This goes back to something else: Ginger acts insane almost immediately after she is bitten. The wounds close, and makes Brigitte swear she wouldn't tell the parents. So, the wounds are gone so the person would not be believed when they give the story, and they are inclined to hide it.
The disease does not want people to know that you have it! It makes a person paranoid and changes their behavior so as to hide the disease while it's incubating.
But think of how this changes werewolf stories in general. Instead of an animal at the full moon, what you have is a partially changed person living in woods, a field or in an old building. They have super-normal strength and speed and are mostly concerned with not being detected till the full moon. They are paranoid, psychotic and irrational, and are maybe losing their ability to speak. They are also predatory on animals, sexual predators and potentially murderous.
That opens up real possibilities for original werewolf stories. I'd say they have as good a legs now as vampire or even zombie stories.
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Post by manimal on Apr 27, 2010 11:32:22 GMT -5
Yeah, I agree with you that Brigitte was a “pillar” for Ginger. I think Ginger would have lost it a lot quicker if it wasn’t for Brigitte being at her side trying to fix things. Brigitte was the only thing keeping her in check. Killing Norman was also a reality check, but after that, her bloodlust took over and she enjoyed her killings. It’s safe to assume that the first werewolf has no one to turn to, hence the numerous killings of dogs within a week’s span. However, I think this person had a more level head than Ginger (even with Brigitte at her side) because his prey was strictly dogs until he fully transformed and went after Ginger.
I have a theory of Brigitte’s influence. I have come to believe that Ginger felt there was no repercussion of killing humans because she took it for granted that little sister would clean it up or get her out of it somehow. I wonder if Brigitte’s actions actually accelerated Ginger’s bloodlust. Maybe it was because the male werewolf had no one to rely on that kept him sane enough to know that humans were off limits. He might have also experienced some hyper sexuality, but being a guy, would have been a lot harder to score. (it was a lot easier for Ginger to seduce the boys) If he was conscience enough not to kill a human, its safe to say he was conscience enough not to rape one. A little off topic, but the werewolf in GS II, was it ever confirmed it was Jason? It would make sense since Jason-Human was a horny teen to begin with. I have heard different time spans between the two movies, ranging from 4 months to 2 years.
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missfirefly
Just Bit
Part human. Part wolf. Completely dangerous.
Posts: 61
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Post by missfirefly on Jul 5, 2010 19:19:46 GMT -5
I actually came up with some of my own theories regarding the "rules" of transformation. Now, this may to sound quite ridiculous, but I'm still trying to figure things out. This is simply MY theory, and it can't be proven.
I think that the first time that werewolves transform--Ginger being the perfect example--it is a slow process. Ginger's body had to slowly adjust to the changes occuring within her. Ginger's very last stage of transformation (in Sam's van) happened so quickly because she was under stress. Because of the stress, Ginger... well... snapped. No pun intended. The werewolf we see at the end of the movie wasn't completely transformed yet. However, IF Ginger had the time to fully transform, then she may have been able to return to human form. My theory is the werewolves must have the knowledge and willpower to return to their human forms, and it must be AFTER they are fully transformed. The reason, I think, that Ginger remained in her wolf form (or almost-wolf form) was for several reasons: she had no control, no knowledge/willpower, and she was not done transforming yet.
Remember, these are only my thoughts. I'm probably wrong.
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Post by lordhowl on Jul 5, 2010 20:03:37 GMT -5
I actually came up with some of my own theories regarding the "rules" of transformation. Now, this may to sound quite ridiculous, but I'm still trying to figure things out. This is simply MY theory, and it can't be proven. I think that the first time that werewolves transform--Ginger being the perfect example--it is a slow process. Ginger's body had to slowly adjust to the changes occuring within her. Ginger's very last stage of transformation (in Sam's van) happened so quickly because she was under stress. Because of the stress, Ginger... well... snapped. No pun intended. The werewolf we see at the end of the movie wasn't completely transformed yet. However, IF Ginger had the time to fully transform, then she may have been able to return to human form. My theory is the werewolves must have the knowledge and willpower to return to their human forms, and it must be AFTER they are fully transformed. The reason, I think, that Ginger remained in her wolf form (or almost-wolf form) was for several reasons: she had no control, no knowledge/willpower, and she was not done transforming yet. Remember, these are only my thoughts. I'm probably wrong. Since this is fantasy, you could come up with any theory that doesn't contradict the actual film. (Or even those that do.) Yours doesn't. I am curious, though. Usually there's a subtext, another story you try to tell, or more your mind tries to add to the story when you come up with theories. One other person here had the "theory," based on ancient writings about werewolves, that Ginger would have turned back after nine years. I have my own theories about it, which are in my fanfiction Ginger Snaps Novel, "The Feral Bond." One mine almost matches yours: the werewolf isn't completely transformed. In mine, the werewolf continues to change, develop and get stronger every full moon. But no, in mine they do not change back, unless something intervenes in the process . . . Also, usually when a person is infected, between the second and fourth week, they usually leave. They get away from family and friends, cut their ties to humanity, and live secluded in the woods or an abandoned building living off their hunting, and waiting until the full moon. Ginger was an exception. Due to the pact she had with Brigitte, she tried to stay and tried to be human, with disastrous results.
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missfirefly
Just Bit
Part human. Part wolf. Completely dangerous.
Posts: 61
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Post by missfirefly on Jul 6, 2010 9:28:56 GMT -5
I've read your fanfic! It's very good.
The full moon is an interesting subject. In my stories, werewolves are at their strongest during the full moon, but it's not permanent. They'll go back to normal after the full moon is over for the month. For a lycanthrope (a human who is in the process of transforming), the process speeds up during the full moon.
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Post by lordhowl on Jul 6, 2010 11:37:27 GMT -5
I've read your fanfic! It's very good. The full moon is an interesting subject. In my stories, werewolves are at their strongest during the full moon, but it's not permanent. They'll go back to normal after the full moon is over for the month. For a lycanthrope (a human who is in the process of transforming), the process speeds up during the full moon. Hey, thanks for the compliment. I hope you enjoyed the latest chapter. The story just reached its dramatic peak, at only 80,000 words. Unfortunately, due to the way I'm writing it and putting it up, chapter by chapter, it's not the leanest story. Like I just wrote a scene (in a chapter not yet up) that I realized probably makes four previous scenes unnecessary. By back to normal, I guess you mean they turn human again? Or is it normal strength for a werewolf? I like the idea of the gradual change, where they reach a stage in which they are crazy and partially changed, but are trying to hide it. Otherwise, in GS, it does not make sense why werewolfism isn't generally known of and believed. I also liked the idea that the wounds healed immediately, that the person will deny it, as the disease is trying to hide itself within the person. So, it later makes them wander off and seclude themselves until the full moon.
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missfirefly
Just Bit
Part human. Part wolf. Completely dangerous.
Posts: 61
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Post by missfirefly on Jul 6, 2010 12:10:43 GMT -5
I was referring to normal werewolf strength, yes. And I agree with most of your theories. ^^ I guess it all depends on the individual who was infected, and their willpower to resist to urge to spill blood.
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Post by lordhowl on Jul 6, 2010 14:18:37 GMT -5
I was referring to normal werewolf strength, yes. And I agree with most of your theories. ^^ I guess it all depends on the individual who was infected, and their willpower to resist to urge to spill blood. In my story, though, willpower does nothing against it. Brigitte was only able to resist through taking monkshood, and afterward only from an anti-psychotic drug which only worked for two days. Looking at the way Ginger changed physically, simply imagine her brain physically changing as radically. The will doesn't matter finally because she's a different animal with a different will. On another topic, here's a question, did the BoBD really want to kill Ginger or did it want to wound her and turn her? Seems to me it was making a lot of wounds in many different parts of the body, and wasn't crunching her bones or eviscerating her. I think it wanted her to change.
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missfirefly
Just Bit
Part human. Part wolf. Completely dangerous.
Posts: 61
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Post by missfirefly on Jul 7, 2010 10:22:45 GMT -5
I think that our stories are simply quite different, but there's nothing wrong with that! I love sharing opinions with other GS fans. I personally believe that Ginger's mind was wasting away was because she was not quite strong (emotionally) as Brigitte, but it could work either way. Your theories are logical, after all, and your fic is very well-written. And that's one theory I share with you. The Beast definately was trying to infect her, and I think I know why: perhaps Ghost was behind it. The only reason I'm saying this is for my own storyline's sake, because in all honesty, I'm trying to make Ghost seems as evil and crafty as possible. It sounds a little far-fetched, but remember, it's only the move the story along. It's probably quite illogical, but Ghost was able to plan out her scheme very carefully in GS2. For all we know she could have somehow sent a werewolf to infect Ginger. Remember, in Ghost's comic, she had drawn an army of werewolves. What if the BoBD was Ghost's first pet? What if Ghost wanted Ginger specifically? That explains why she was so set on becoming Brigitte's "friend" in GS2. She knew that Brigitte would be useful. I know this sounds silly, but I thought it might be an interesting (if far-fetched) concept.
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Post by lordhowl on Jul 7, 2010 22:03:52 GMT -5
I think that our stories are simply quite different, but there's nothing wrong with that! I love sharing opinions with other GS fans. I personally believe that Ginger's mind was wasting away was because she was not quite strong (emotionally) as Brigitte, but it could work either way. Your theories are logical, after all, and your fic is very well-written. And that's one theory I share with you. The Beast definately was trying to infect her, and I think I know why: perhaps Ghost was behind it. The only reason I'm saying this is for my own storyline's sake, because in all honesty, I'm trying to make Ghost seems as evil and crafty as possible. It sounds a little far-fetched, but remember, it's only the move the story along. It's probably quite illogical, but Ghost was able to plan out her scheme very carefully in GS2. For all we know she could have somehow sent a werewolf to infect Ginger. Remember, in Ghost's comic, she had drawn an army of werewolves. What if the BoBD was Ghost's first pet? What if Ghost wanted Ginger specifically? That explains why she was so set on becoming Brigitte's "friend" in GS2. She knew that Brigitte would be useful. I know this sounds silly, but I thought it might be an interesting (if far-fetched) concept. lol. Yes, ours our different, and its okay. Do you actually have a written fanfic story, like up on a site? Or is it in your mind? I tried to avoid making Brigitte actually the stronger one as it appeared. She was better informed than Ginger as to what was happening, she had a weapon against it (monkshood) and after the trauma of what happened to Ginger, she absolutely despised the changes. Having Ghost in it all along is a bizarre turn. A little more bizarre than having the sisters' bird-skull necklaces turn out to be powerful Indian talismans, but I needed a way to explain the robust presence of Ginger's ghost, and some way to bring the conflict between the sisters to a head.
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missfirefly
Just Bit
Part human. Part wolf. Completely dangerous.
Posts: 61
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Post by missfirefly on Jul 8, 2010 9:15:27 GMT -5
I guess I better explain, it's a little complicated. My story-arc involving the Fitzgerald sisters is actually part of a very large crossover fic entitled Lucky Charmed. LC is a mixture of many horror movies, including the Ginger Snaps trilogy. Ginger plays a part in the story, but not a huge one. Here is the link to it: www.fanfiction.net/s/4965049/1/Lucky_Charmed However, after Lucky Charmed is finished, a new story centering around Ginger and Brigitte will be written, entitled Animal Heart. That's what I've been referring to. ;D And I never thought of it that way... that could be true. About Brigitte being the stronger one. However, as much as I like Ginger, Brigitte IS more level-headed than she is. Perhaps that's why her first transformation differed from Ginger's. I actually liked the idea about the talismans. They play a part in Animal Heart as well. You'll see what I mean eventually.
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