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Post by lordhowl on Jan 16, 2010 8:12:08 GMT -5
On the IMDB, I looked at the comments on Ginger Snaps. The commentary page lets you sort reviews by loved it or hated it. I searched by "Hated it." The reason why I look these up is to find out why people did not like it, and see if they saw or missed anything that I didn't.
So, I'll go through one today from lordzed-3:
“Here's a fact of life about Werewolves, they are normal until the night of the full moon. Werewolves don't change over the course of the days leading to the full moon, I mean if that was true then there would be hard evidence proving the existence of werewolves by now.”
No, lordzed, I automatically thought of a few reasons why there there might not be hard evidence of werewolves even if Ginger's changes were gradual. Ginger might have been exceptional. First, the curse might have progressed a physically different way with her than with other people. Or, maybe there was something exceptional in Ginger's behavior. Maybe the usual behavior of werewolves is that they wander away from the rest of humanity until they change completely.
I go with the latter, which gives the movie deeper tone. Perhaps it was her closeness to Brigitte that kept Ginger psychologically human for as long as she was? What would have happened if Ginger had killed Norman, but she didn't have Brigitte? Would Ginger have even tried to be human after that point? My guess: clearly no. I could easily see her wandering away and living off dogs and wild animals, and maybe a toddler, until the full moon.
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Post by lordhowl on Jan 16, 2010 23:39:38 GMT -5
I'm not replying to myself out of ego. I was going to go through other complaints about the film. However, tonight I just wanted to add a comment about why people might not like an excellent movie like this.
A movie is an illusion. Any illusion is going to have flaws, but if people watch the movie, they want to believe the illusion for its duration. Sometimes, when they notice flaws, it's usually because they couldn't connect with the characters, or they were bored with the plot, and for GS, this could be that the person is in the wrong age group and can't understand teenagers. Or something in the plot just bothered or offended them: like Ginger's hypersexuality.
Once they are "lost" to believing the illusion, they stop paying attention and their bored mind then turns to finding the flaws-- flaws which movies they like may very well have. Since they are bored and given to being inattentive, they can then make the dumbest complaints about the film.
While no movie or set of characters is going to appeal to everyone, it's also true that they might not have been their best mind that night. Even if that's so, after they see it as a failure, they really can't watch the movie and have that improve.
On the other hand, if people are totally into the plot and characters, their minds will automatically find ways throughout to either ignore its flaws or explain them.
I'm the latter type. Without thinking about it, if I get into a movie my mind figures out ways to explain flaws the flaws: without knowing that I'm doing it.
Such as, how did the beast of Bailey Downs kill Baxter? I figured that out. The beast of Bailey Downs hunted in human or intermediate form. In fact, that's the way Ginger killed Norman. This gives an intriguing possibility: maybe the night he attacked Ginger was HIS first full moon.
What happened to the werewolve's body after Sam hit it? Apparently, once the creature his hit, the werewolf "virus" then quickly destroys the remains.
This is why flaws that seem fatal to some people are not fatal to others. With the Fitzgerald sisters, I was just drawn in by the first scene.
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Post by lordhowl on Jan 17, 2010 12:19:34 GMT -5
this from daniellepedraza on the IMDB
"the beginning was good, half of the movie was OK, near the ending it was stupid. first of all, what did the period had to do with the werewolf changes . . . ?"
For the plot, nothing, the blood simply attracted the werewolf. Metaphorically? Horror movies are nightmares. GS was about a nightmare about adolescence. For a girl forced to go through it, as we all are forced to, it might be: what if it turns me into something ugly and heinous?
". . . and their was no brief history of were the wolf thing came from."
Like it or not, the movie was only about the Fitzgerald sisters' experience with werewolfism. You only knew what they did and everything else was outside the scope.
"What happened to their father? he got eaten? or what?"
Here you had already given up and stopped paying attention. He just wasn't home. That's simply it. Maybe it was his poker night.
"When they were preparing the antidote, why didn't she risk it and tried it on her sister first, instead on the guy that first got infected by making out with her, the movie could have continued with the guy killing everyone in the neighborhood while they tried to track him down and kill him or leave it a mystery some how, like some movies do. anyways, its just what i thought, but it wont kill to watch it anyways."
She didn't have a choice but to use it on Jason. She didn't go in there and save the kid planning on using it, but once she was there, it was the only defense she possibly had.
I might love Brigitte, but I don't think it was in her character to hunt Jason. She might have told somebody else about monkshood, but at least by that point, she already had her hands full with Ginger. The loss of her sister would have been crippling, for a while.
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nat
Growing Tail
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Post by nat on Jan 19, 2010 21:09:08 GMT -5
not to sound like a dick or anything, but I don't really care if they don't like it. It's their loss cus it's great, but if they don't like it then fine. And i don't understand what the point of posting the complaints are. Maybe I'm just missing the point though, if I am then, sorry.
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Post by lordhowl on Jan 20, 2010 12:57:00 GMT -5
I understand, and in fact, I was having doubts about this approach myself.
I thought it was a good way to look at some facets of the movie. Such as, how do you think Ginger would have behaved if she had been bitten and didn't have Brigitte? I think she would have probably left the rest of humanity and gone feral in that last week.
Also, as I thought of it, it was a good chance to think about how movies work or don't work as illusions.
Maybe I should just pose their comments as questions on here? I guess.
Let me pose the question: do you believe that Ginger would have even tried to stay with humanity if she didn't have Brigitte? Or say, she totally alienated Brigitte. What do you think she would have done?
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nat
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Post by nat on Jan 20, 2010 15:52:27 GMT -5
She would probably have killed herself. But maybe she'd be a bit more like B in Unleashed.
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Post by lordhowl on Jan 20, 2010 19:36:45 GMT -5
She would probably have killed herself. But maybe she'd be a bit more like B in Unleashed. Hadn't thought of that. But I notice that Brigitte doesn't try to kill herself in "Unleashed." Could be the nature of the curse that it won't let you commit suicide after a certain point.
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nat
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Post by nat on Jan 21, 2010 4:18:39 GMT -5
Maybe. I alway's thought that it brought out the worst in you. It amplified Ginger's paranoia, and took her developing sexuality and turned it into a uncontrollable craving. Those both eventually led to her homicidal urges.
In Bridgette case, she had a bit more character to begin with, and by the end of the first movie, a strong will to live.
I think that the curse has different effects on different people basically.
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Post by lordhowl on Jan 21, 2010 9:41:18 GMT -5
Maybe. I alway's thought that it brought out the worst in you. It amplified Ginger's paranoia, and took her developing sexuality and turned it into a uncontrollable craving. Those both eventually led to her homicidal urges. In Bridgette case, she had a bit more character to begin with, and by the end of the first movie, a strong will to live. I think that the curse has different effects on different people basically. That's completely what I saw. Brigitte had to be cautious seeking help for fear of totally alienating Ginger, who might have run away or even attacked Brigitte. And I think the curse has different effects on different people as well, but it bends every thought, every drive a person has toward bloody violence. Think about this subtlety, though. I'm not certain that Brigitte developed her strong will to live in the course of the movie. "Out by sixteen or dead in the scene . . . " With the nurse, we learn Ginger was about to turn sixteen! This was probably why death and suicide was so much on their minds at the beginning of the movie. In that scene, when Ginger recalls the oath, Brigitte only reluctantly takes her hand, and she adds ". . . united against life as we know it." The sisters did not see eye-to-eye about that oath. Ginger wanted Brigitte to die with her, but that was not Brigitte's idea of devotion from the very beginning. What I believe changed during the course of the film was Brigitte's assertiveness about it. She was willing to stand against a blood-crazed werewolf and declare it. "I'm not dying in this room with you!" Otherwise, you have to wonder, in her hysteria, why would that line come to her? So an implied argument between the sisters at the beginning is settled with the last lines of the movie. The last scene echoes the first. As a metaphor, it worked so well.
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nat
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Post by nat on Jan 21, 2010 13:35:44 GMT -5
You hit the nail right on the head. That's exactly how I felt.
Do you have the next question?
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Post by lordhowl on Jan 21, 2010 21:46:17 GMT -5
Yes, special effects. This is one of my only criticisms of the movie. I think it could have used just a little more budget in special effects.
Not a lot. I was going to write fan letters to Katharine Isabelle and Emily Perkins saying that I thought they saved John Fawcett five million dollars each in special effects that it would have required to otherwise make this movie work. I'm serious, too.
In the scene when they arrive home after Ginger is bitten, Isabelle and Perkins' acting made "healing" effects on Ginger unnecessary. I mean Ginger crying out "It wasn't a fucking bear, there are no fucking bears near here!" By the tone Isabelle gives it, at that moment, I knew Ginger believed she was doomed. A moment later, Brigitte says, "That's impossible, those are already healing!"
After those lines, you didn't have to see the wounds actually heal. Fawcett saved some money on healing makeup.
The one thing that might have made it stronger is a scene showing Ginger's increasing strength and agility. I wish I had seen Ginger carry Trina's body to the ice box, or lift it out.
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nat
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Post by nat on Jan 23, 2010 0:17:50 GMT -5
For the most part, the cheesy effects worked towards it's advantage in creating a B-movie atmosphere. That was something I enjoyed for the most part, but the ginger-wolf was pretty disappointing. Too plasticy and fake looking.
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Post by lordhowl on Jan 23, 2010 11:22:12 GMT -5
For the most part, the cheesy effects worked towards it's advantage in creating a B-movie atmosphere. That was something I enjoyed for the most part, but the ginger-wolf was pretty disappointing. Too plasticy and fake looking. One reason why I wish there would be a 10th anniversary edition is that they might spruce up those special effects. And just a little bit of CGI sprucing, if done right, would go a long way. Those scenes still worked. When I first watched it, I didn't think about how the werewolf looked, because Emily Perkins' acting performed a miracle there. I don't know exactly what you mean by B-Movie atmosphere. I understand camp, and when something "looks like" a B-Movie. This was a small movie.
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nat
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Post by nat on Jan 24, 2010 19:39:08 GMT -5
I saw it as a B-movie, with good acting and story. It had a few throwbacks to classic B-movies. Pamela is very much like the character of Aunt Martha in Sleepaway Camp, in her quirky mannerisms, and slightly psychotic mindset. The overly bitchy school girls are a common trope, as are the ultra-horny school boys.
It's just the vibe I got.
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Post by lordhowl on Jan 24, 2010 21:31:19 GMT -5
I saw it as a B-movie, with good acting and story. It had a few throwbacks to classic B-movies. Pamela is very much like the character of Aunt Martha in Sleepaway Camp, in her quirky mannerisms, and slightly psychotic mindset. The overly bitchy school girls are a common trope, as are the ultra-horny school boys. It's just the vibe I got. It was a B-movie in that it was independent, low budget, produced in boonies, and had little if any, Hollywood money in it. The actors were all unknowns, except for Mimi Rogers as the Pamela, and I assure you, the main reason she was cast was to give the project enough credibility to get financing or distribution. If you notice, they actually reached all the way out to Hollywood for her. I can't quite think of it as a B-movie, but really, as an independent movie that took exactly the original approach that an independent film has to in order to be a success. For myself, I don't call it a B-Movie because it was too original and did too good a job .
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Boehlke
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Wild things in the North Eastern Valley
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Post by Boehlke on Jan 30, 2010 20:22:08 GMT -5
Yeah, I don't call it a B-Movie either. Most people think B for Bad, and I would not want to give people that impression. Independent however is nice. I have family doing independent films. And most of the people I forced to see Ginger Snaps liked it.
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